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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: May 18, 2009 10:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Now, I would walk out...

Thanks for posting, and objecting to all THE Torture being committed by the USA. Don't get side-tracked by the bullshit argument about water boarding. USA tortured 100 prisoners to death. Obama is proving what liars, criminals, and cruel human beings he and his administration really are. That they would condone, hide, dismiss and cover up all this torture and murder committed by the George W. Bush administration is a further continuance of these crimes against humanity.

Someday, inevitably American troops will be captured by the enemy. How do you think they will be tortured? Why?

Democracy Now, 14 May 2009

Amy Goodman intro:

John Sifton, private investigator and attorney based in New York. He is the executive director of One World Research, which carries out research for law firms and human rights groups. He was formerly at Human Rights Watch as the Asia Division researcher and then senior researcher on terrorism and counterterrorism. He has conducted extensive investigations into the CIA interrogation and detention program, and his latest article published on The Daily Beast is called The Bush Administration Homicides.

John Sifton: The reason I wrote about Bush administration homicides, which is not something, you know, I’ve—I worked on for a while. A lot of this was uncovered by Human Rights Watch and Human Rights First and the ACLU, all the way back in 2003, 2004, 2005. We knew that up to a hundred detainees had died in US custody in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we had published this information previously. But I brought it up again, because I feel like the debate right now about torture is missing the point.

These aggressive techniques were not just limited to the high-value detainee program in the CIA. They spread to the military with disastrous results. They led to the deaths of human beings. And when there’s a corpse involved, when there’s a dead body involved, you can’t just have a debate about policy differences and looking forward or looking backward.

Amy Goodman: Give us examples.

John Sifton: Well, there are detainees as early as 2002 who died in Afghanistan. Some were interrogated by the CIA in closed sites north of Kabul. Others were in the military base at Bagram, beaten to death, literally, by guards who were being instructed by military intelligence officers, you know, to soften detainees up. Later on in Iraq, when the insurgency heated up in August and September of 2003, we saw deaths there, including both CIA interrogation deaths and regular military deaths.

Amy Goodman: Keep going with these examples. And then I want to ask you—well, you’re talking murder, then. And how should it be prosecuted?

John Sifton: Well, you have, to start, approximately a hundred deaths. The Army has already—the Army Criminal Investigation Command has already determined that a large number of those were homicides, which just means that the death wasn’t the result of natural causes. Then you have to determine whether those homicides were murder.

And the review by Human Rights First, which took place several years ago, showed that in many cases there was good evidence to show that murder had taken place, murder by torture. And yet, the military again and again has closed these investigations. They’ve just sort of petered out.

But there’s a huge amount of documents, tens of thousands of documents. And some of the photographs that are at issue now, with the Obama administration releasing photographs, are photographs that are evidentiary photographs in those investigations.

324-torture_2.jpgg3b9aj.jpg

Democracy Now, 18 May 2009

john-yooWEB.jpg Philadelphia Inquirer Hires Torture Memo Author John Yoo to Write Column

The letters to the editorial page of the Philadelphia Inquirer are on fire. People are writing in, overwhelmingly opposed to the newspaper’s hiring of John Yoo as a columnist, the former Justice Department lawyer who helped write what’s come to be known as the torture memo that claimed the treatment of prisoners amounted to torture only if it caused the same level of pain as “organ failure, impairment of bodily function or even death.”

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Poster: Edsel Date: May 18, 2009 11:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Now, I would walk out...

"Someday, inevitably American troops will be captured by the enemy. How do you think they will be tortured? Why?"

I'm pretty sure they will beheaded, like the others before them that have already suffered this fate, but let's not talk about that.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: May 18, 2009 12:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Now, I would walk out...

If --
a) I'm pretty sure they will beheaded, like the others before "them" that have already suffered this fate

Then --
b) we should arrest "them", charge them, and prosecute them in court
c) we are not like "them"
d) we should apply the rule of law - these are crimes, perhaps war crimes if you can make the charges

I am opposed to --
e) we should do the same thing to "them" - our leaders order our troops and CIA to commit torture and murder
f) we should violate the rules of law and treaty obligations
h) we are the same as "them"
i) our leaders should be liars, and illegally invade and occupy foreign countries - such as Iraq
j) that makes us worse than "them"
h) "they" are not allowed to defend themselves against invaders
i) I must pay taxes to pay for this, and be expected to vote for all this
j) our leaders may spy illegally and endlessly on any and all of us

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Poster: Pork Soda Date: May 18, 2009 1:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Now, I would walk out...

Stand and fight we do consider
Reminded of an inner pact between us
That's seen as we go
And ride there
In motion
To fields in debts of honor
Defending

Stand the marchers soaring talons,
Peaceful lives will not deliver freedom,
Fighting we know,
Destroy oppression
The point to reaction
As leaders look to you
Attacking

Choose and renounce throwing chains to the floor.
Kill or be killing faster sins correct the flow.
Casting giant shadows off vast penetrating force
To alter via the war that seen
As friction spans the spirits wrath ascending (slowly) to redeem.

Wars that shout in screams of anguish,
Power spent passion bespoils our soul receiver,
Surely we know.
In glory
We rise to offer,
Create our freedom,
A word we utter,
A word.

Words cause our banner, victorious our day.
Will silence be promised as violence display?
The curse increased we fight the power
And live by it by day.
Our gods awake in thunderous roars,
And guide the leaders' hand in paths of glory to the cause.

Listen, should we fight forever
Knowing as we do know fear destroys?
Listen, should we leave our children?
Listen, our lives stare in silence;
Help us now.

Listen, your friends have been broken,
They tell us of your poison; now we know.
Kill them, give them as they give us.
Slay them, burn their childrens' laughter
On to hell.

The fist will run, grasp metal to gun.
The spirit sings in crashing tones,
We gain the battle drum.
Our cries will shrill, the air will moan and crash into the dawn.
The pen won't stay the demon's wings,
The hour approaches pounding out the Devil's sermon.

Soon, oh soon the light,
Pass within and soothe this endless night
And wait here for you,
Our reason to be here.

Soon, oh soon the time,
All we move to gain will reach and calm;
Our heart is open,
Our reason to be here.

Long ago, set into rhyme.
Soon, oh soon the light,
Ours to shape for all time,
Ours the right;
The sun will lead us,
Our reason to be here.

Soon, oh soon the light,
Ours to shape for all time,
Ours the right;
The sun will lead us,
Our reason to be here.

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Poster: Edsel Date: May 18, 2009 4:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Now, I would walk out...

them....refers to those already beheaded, but you know that.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: May 28, 2009 11:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Now, I would walk out...

Will Bobby & Mickey be high-fiving and hugging Rumsfeld, Kissenger, and the ex-CIA Directors while they're camping with them this July at Bohemian Grove this year? Not to mention what LIARs Barack Obama and our US Congress are for continuing to commit brutal, inhumane, and illegal torture by the USA. You won't read or hear about this in the USA, or see it reported here, but the rest of the World has the skinny on this horror show.

Reported today, May 28, 2009
Telegraph.co.uk

Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'
By Duncan Gardham, Security Correspondent and Paul Cruickshank


At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee.

Further photographs are said to depict sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube.

Another apparently shows a female prisoner having her clothing forcibly removed to expose her breasts.

Detail of the content emerged from Major General Antonio Taguba, the former army officer who conducted an inquiry into the Abu Ghraib jail in Iraq.

250px-Antonio_M._Taguba.jpg

The latest photographs relate to 400 cases of alleged abuse between 2001 and 2005 in Abu Ghraib and six other prisons. Mr Obama said the individuals involved had been “identified, and appropriate actions” taken.

Maj Gen Taguba’s internal inquiry into the abuse at Abu Ghraib, included sworn statements by 13 detainees, which, he said in the report, he found “credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses.”

Among the graphic statements, which were later released under US freedom of information laws, is that of Kasim Mehaddi Hilas in which he says: “I saw [name of a translator] ******* a kid, his age would be about 15 to 18 years. The kid was hurting very bad and they covered all the doors with sheets. Then when I heard screaming I climbed the door because on top it wasn’t covered and I saw [name] who was wearing the military uniform, putting his **** in the little kid’s ***…. and the female soldier was taking pictures.”

The translator was an American Egyptian who is now the subject of a civil court case in the US.

Three detainees, including the alleged victim, refer to the use of a phosphorescent tube in the sexual abuse and another to the use of wire, while the victim also refers to part of a policeman’s “stick” all of which were apparently photographed.

capt.dcwap10705212043.iraq_prisoner_abuse_dcwap107.jpg



This post was modified by dead-head_Monte on 2009-05-28 18:00:10

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Poster: bluedevil Date: May 18, 2009 11:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Now, I would walk out...

No doubt that has happened - the problem with us torturing is that we can now expect the same treatment and have completely ceded any moral high ground re the use of the same. Not to mention treaties we signed against the same. It's a long way from Nuremberg and prosecuting the Japanese. Who cares? Victors write the books.

I'll just go and listen to new Jeff Tweedy and ignore Micky and the boys:
http://beta.wilcoworld.net/records/thealbum/index.php

I'll go, I'll go, I'll go, I'll go for you
I'll fight, I'll fight, I'll fight, I'll fight for you
I'll kill, I'll kill, I'll kill, I'll kill for you
I will, I will, I will

I'll go,I'll go, I'll go, I'll go for you
I'll fight, I'll fight, I'll fight, I'll fight for you
I'll die, I'll die, I'll die, I'll die for you
I will, I will, I will

And if I die
I'll die
I'll die alone on some
Old private hill
Abandoned by the mill
All my blood will
Spring and spill
I'll crash the air and be still

You'll wait
With the star from a dream
And know that I am gone
You'll feel it in your heart
But not for very long
You'll rise each day as planed
Your will is your command
And stand each Sunday
A hymnal steady in your hand
You'll sing to yourself
The rising-falling melody
That you could never read
Without the choirs' lead
Still alone, and lost in deep
And your soul will not be free

I will go , I will go, I will go
And in wars waters
I will wade
And I will know
If I remorse or regret
The fairness of our trade
For you to live
I took your place
And it was made
And I was paid
And the goldness
I was told
Was a place
Where my body could be laid
And we will steal your life
And I own
In better homes surrounded
By your peers
Without suffering or fear
Grandchildren far and near
And none will shed a tear
For the love no longer here

I'll go, I'll go, I'll go, I'll go for you
I will
I'll fight, I'll fight,I'll fight, I'll fight for you
I will, I will, I will
I'll kill, I'll kill, I'll kill, I'll kill for you
I will
I'll die, I'll die, I'll die, I'll die for you
I will, I will, I will

And if I die
I'll die
I'll die alone like Jesus
On a cross
My faith cannot by tossed
And my life will not be lost
If my love comes across

[RIP to the fallen]

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2009-05-18 18:48:32